Carmine 1.09 support

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Re: Carmine 1.09 support

james
Administrator
Sorry I must be missing something, because I cannot see any reference to 5.1.2 in the PPA or your comment. Perhaps I am misinterpreting what you mean by 'shipping' 5.1.2. I was only able to access 5.1.2 by building from git from [1].
Thanks, I am currently building the commit for Linux and will report results in the dev thread (seems to be working).

[1] https://github.com/jspricke/openni-sensor-primesense
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Re: Carmine 1.09 support

Jochen Sprickerhof
Administrator
Hi James,

* james <[hidden email]> [2013-11-05 15:01]:
> Sorry I must be missing something, because I cannot see any reference to
> 5.1.2 in the PPA or your comment. Perhaps I am misinterpreting what you mean
> by 'shipping' 5.1.2. I was only able to access 5.1.2 by building from git
> from [1].

I'm really sorry, I got that wrong. The PPA only contains
5.1.0.41, which does not contain 1.09 support, according to the
changelog. As far as I remember, we had multi camera and/or stability
issues with 5.1.2.1, that's why I never added it to the PPA.

Cheers Jochen
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Re: Carmine 1.09 support

james
Administrator
Hi Jochen,

No problem, thanks for clarifying!
Would it be possible to update the PPA to the latest OpenNI2?
I thought I would try updating the Carmine 1.09 to the latest firmware 5.9.2, and it is having issues with the openni2 grabber now. I am trying to re-compile the OpenNI2 fork with OpenNI 2.2, but the standard downloads from OpenNI2 don't play as nicely with the FindOpenNI2 cmake module as the PPA release.

Thanks,
James
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Re: Carmine 1.09 support

Jochen Sprickerhof
Administrator
Hi James,

* james <[hidden email]> [2013-11-10 22:51]:
> Would it be possible to update the PPA to the latest OpenNI2?

We need someone to take care of the packaging. Hauke did the initial
port, but I haven't heard from him lately. Take a look here:
https://github.com/hcw70/OpenNI2

Cheers Jochen
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Re: Carmine 1.09 support

james
Administrator
Hi Jochen,

OK Thanks for that link. I might try the develop branch, because they are up to date.

Thanks,
James
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Re: Carmine 1.09 support

Jochen Sprickerhof
Administrator
* james <[hidden email]> [2013-11-11 21:33]:
> OK Thanks for that link. I might try the develop branch, because they are up
> to date.

Yeah, we are discussing the details in [1] and I will upload a new
version into the PPA soon.

Cheers Jochen

[1] https://github.com/hcw70/OpenNI2/issues/10
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Re: Carmine 1.09 support

james
Administrator
Thanks, that's great; the change logs look like they will solve the issues with the Carmine.

Cheers,
James
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Re: Carmine 1.09 support

james
Administrator
In reply to this post by Jochen Sprickerhof
Hi Jochen,

I understand that you are working with Hauke to get 2.3 into the PPA, but I was wondering if you could give me some advice of getting either 2.2 or 2.3 installed in the mean time, because I need something stable for the Carmine rather quickly (the develop git branch wouldn't compile for me).
What exactly is needed to get it running on Ubuntu? I'm not sure why, but the OpenNI 2.2 download from the OpenNI website, with the install.sh script, doesn't work for me. The script runs through, but the sample binaries can never find a connected device.

Thanks for your support, I do understand this is community driven, and am happy to assist where I can.

Best regards,
James
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Re: Carmine 1.09 support

Jochen Sprickerhof
Administrator
Hi James,

* james <[hidden email]> [2013-11-13 23:00]:
> I understand that you are working with Hauke to get 2.3 into the PPA, but I
> was wondering if you could give me some advice of getting either 2.2 or 2.3
> installed in the mean time, because I need something stable for the Carmine
> rather quickly (the develop git branch wouldn't compile for me).
> What exactly is needed to get it running on Ubuntu? I'm not sure why, but
> the OpenNI 2.2 download from the OpenNI website, with the install.sh script,
> doesn't work for me. The script runs through, but the sample binaries can
> never find a connected device.

Are you talking about Haukes debian-develop branch? You should be able
to create debs out of it using git-buildpackage. If not, please open an
issue.

> Thanks for your support, I do understand this is community driven, and am
> happy to assist where I can.

That's really good to hear, I think testing and reporting bugs (or
fixing them through pull requests) would help a lot.

Cheers Jochen
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Re: Carmine 1.09 support

martyvona
In reply to this post by james
James, Jochen, Shome - We finally got back to working with carmine 1.09.  I think we found a workable solution for us last night.  We built from the PrimeSense 1.x upstream sourcees on github (OpenNI 1.5.7.10/Sensor 5.1.6.6 on 11/13/13).  We are using pcl-trunk on ubuntu 12.04 64bit.  We also tried three other openni/sensor versions that had been discussed in this thread but this seemed to be the best option. (*)

Full details here:
https://wiki.ccs.neu.edu/display/GPC/Carmine+1.09
https://wiki.ccs.neu.edu/display/GPC/pcl-trunk+on+Ubuntu+12.04+LTS+64bit

The main caveat is that this method is not stable if you need depth+RGB (also I don't think it will support Kinect, but xtion pro does work with same caveat).  We only need depth so we should be able to move forward with it for now.  The problem with RGB is that on the second and later runs of your application OpenNI usually (but not always) reports zero (rgb) image generator nodes to the pcl openni driver layer.  You can work around by unplugging/replugging the sensor.  Also this behavior is the same if we test with an xtion pro instead of carmine 1.09.  Any thoughts on how to debug this would be appreciated.

We also want to explore openni 2 (though our own code has openni 1.x dependencies that will need to be updated as well).  It is a little hard to see exactly which branches are The Ones to try for pcl+openni2+carmine 1.09.  Should we go with hcw70/OpenNI2/develop and kwagel/pcl/openni2 (or kwagel/pcl/openni2_pullrequest)?

Best,
Marty Vona

(*) I had previously said in this thread that apt-get install libopenni-dev libopenni-sensor-primesense0 from PCL PPA (OpenNI 1.5.4.0/Sensor 5.1.0.41 on 11/9/13) "works" now I can't reproduce that with carmine 1.09, sorry, maybe I was testing with xtion pro when I wrote that
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Re: Carmine 1.09 support

james
Administrator
Hi Marty,

Thanks for the info. Unfortunately I was unable to build from source from the Wiki (I'm sorry, I don't have any logs or the likes).

I needed to get going quickly, so I ended up finding this very easy Windows solution, which appears to be working without fault:
* PCL-1.6.0-AllInOne-msvc2010-win32.exe from http://pointclouds.org/downloads/windows.html
   (this all-in-one has proven very valuable over time)
* Sensor-Win32-5.1.6-Redist.msi from http://www.openni.org/openni-sdk/openni-sdk-history-2/
* OpenNI-Win32-1.5.7-Dev.msi  from http://www.openni.org/openni-sdk/openni-sdk-history-2/

Thanks,
James
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Re: Carmine 1.09 support

martyvona
James - great that you got it working.  I didn't realize you are on Windows, so if the binary installers are working there great.

I just got everything going on OS X 10.9 mavericks (*) and it seems to be working.  Better than Linux in fact -- the issue with RGB does not reproduce on OS X.  I guess from your post you didn't have the issue on Windows either?

Marty

(*) https://wiki.ccs.neu.edu/display/GPC/pcl-trunk+on+OS+X+10.9+with+homebrew
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Re: Carmine 1.09 support

james
Administrator
Hi Marty,

I was on Ubuntu, but in order to get something working quickly and stable, I moved to Windows. Yes, everything including colour is running well.

Thanks,
James
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Re: Carmine 1.09 support

dim_tz
Hi all,

as I am resuming work with the carmine,
is there any update regarding carmine support and pcl's PPA?

Best,
dimitris
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Re: Carmine 1.09 support

james
Administrator
Hi Dimitris,

As you can see here [1], there haven't been any recent PPA updates, so the recent posts in this should be relevant.
I don't know how prudent it would be to focus a lot of development with Carmine sensors anymore, based on the Apple acquisition and their current halt of sales [2] (permanent or temporary? who knows?)

Having said this, it would be good to have a regularly updated page of sensor options and their support status. I for one, am keen to see how to new Kinect and Intel sensors perform.

Cheers,
James

[1] https://launchpad.net/~v-launchpad-jochen-sprickerhof-de/+archive/pcl
[2] http://www.primesense.com/developers/get-your-sensor/ (no longer exists, and used to say they weren't taking any more sales)
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Re: Carmine 1.09 support

dim_tz
Hi James,

Thank you for your answer. The news that you mention about premisense's website really make me worry, as we recently bought 2 carmines in our lab, hoping to have the best possible support (because of primesense+openni+pcl), but now things look a bit pessimistic. Do you think open-source projects are going to be affected by this?

You mentioned several weeks ago a quick solution that you found for windows. Could you please comment on the frame rate that you got? Did you have to resort to Visual Studio or anything could work?

I have already posted a dirty hack that I found (http://www.pcl-users.org/Carmine-1-09-support-tp4026939p4030385.html), it breaks kinect compatibility, the carmine kind-of-works, but the frame rate is awful.
Yesterday I did an experiment with 2 laptops:
- one with ubuntu 13.04, latest PCL through the PPA, with the hack mentioned in the link above, and Carmine 09
- one with ubuntu 12.04 (for compatibility with other rgd cameras recently bought), latest PCL through PPA and kinect.
Cameras were looking towards my hand and I was using a custom application that display and optionally records PCDs. The fps of the 2nd setup (kinect) was much better than the one of the 1st setup (carmine) and could easily follow the fast movement of hand-fingers, while the carmine was giving pose "jumps".

Although I'm on linux, I would like to get a fast solution to chase deadlines. I'm not interested in using the camera frames on the fly, I want to record some PCDs offline, and then process them with my algorithms (which are far from being real time, I'm into C.Vision and not robotics). Short-range is a strict prerequisite. Ubuntu would be the best possible OS.

The problem is that compiling from (many) sources is something we would like to avoid, as the same setup should be applied to many computers for students.

Any proposal?

dimitris
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Re: Carmine 1.09 support

dim_tz
One extra note on my comment above on the fps number

pcl_openni_viewer is throughing a seg fault.
Using my custom app (just capturing+displaying), rough measurements of the fps say that
- the kinect (original) setup gives ~15 fps
- the carmine (hacky) setup gives ~8.5 fps

I cannot judge though if the dropped frame rate of the carmine is ~constant over time
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Re: Carmine 1.09 support

martyvona
Hi Dimitris -

We worked on this recently and managed to get 30fps from carmine 1.09 in ubuntu 12.04, but without reliable RGB images (depth image only).

https://wiki.ccs.neu.edu/display/GPC/Carmine+1.09

https://wiki.ccs.neu.edu/display/GPC/pcl-trunk+on+Ubuntu+12.04+LTS+64bit

https://wiki.ccs.neu.edu/display/GPC/OpenNI+and+PCL+Recording+Codes

However if you're only getting 15fps with a kinect then you may have something else going on.

Best,
Marty
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Re: Carmine 1.09 support

james
Administrator
In reply to this post by dim_tz
Hi,

Sorry for the delayed reply. Yes I got the full frame rates and stable operation with the Windows solution I mentioned.

Regards,
James
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Re: Carmine 1.09 support

dim_tz
Hi Marty, James,

@ Marty:
Thanks for your links!
Unfortunately I will be needing both rgb and depth, as I am targeting reconstruction that can partially rely on both of them.
Regarding the fps number, I'm not sure if most people measure this, but I measure this manually while displaying and storing them into memory (actual storing on disk happens later offline). So in the end I just see the number of frames stored and the time needed for it.
 So this is a custom, manual way of measuring fps, and is also approximate.

@ James:
That's interesting to know, thanks!
It might prove to be very useful for practical scenarios!

@ all
Other than this, since I'm interested in near-range applications (hand tracking), are you satisfied regarding the noise of the camera?
I'm a bit worried with the noise of the Carmine, as big finger-parts disappear often.
Has anyone used it for a somewhat similar purpose and can share some info regarding his/her experience?
Just by looking at the depth image (no pointcloud at the moment) I think the Softkinetic near range camera looks better.
(but it is not supported by OpenNI or PCL, so it's mainly fitted for offline use, otherwise a custom solution binding PCL and Softkinetic's api must be built)

Best,
dimitris



On Thu, Jan 16, 2014 at 12:40 AM, james <[hidden email]> wrote:
Hi,

Sorry for the delayed reply. Yes I got the full frame rates and stable
operation with the Windows solution I mentioned.

Regards,
James




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